Back in 2021, San Antonio police found a man named Thomas “Tomas” Larralde intoxicated and asleep at the wheel of a vehicle at around 3 a.m.
Larralde was arrested, charged with a DWI, and eventually fired from his role as chief of staff for Texas Senator José Menéndez, a Democrat from San Antonio. A new Texas Monthly investigation has revealed drunk driving wasn’t Larralde’s only offense.
Olivia Messer and Cara Kelly report Larralde had gained a reputation around the Capitol for sexually harassing women, including some of the interns who worked for Sen. Menéndez – and he was not alone. Messer and Kelly found the Texas Senate “buries sexual harassment complaints and enables bad actors.”
The reporters joined Texas Standard with the details. Listen to the interview above or read the transcript below.
This transcript has been edited lightly for clarity:
Texas Standard: Your story’s about the structural factors that make sexual harassment a problem in the Texas Senate, but I’d first like to talk a little bit more about Thomas Larralde, that former chief of staff for state Sen. Menéndez. What brought his conduct to your attention?
Cara Kelly: We had heard some rumblings about allegations against him, and it took us a little while to pin them down.
Over the course of our reporting, I was able to find and talk to Lila, who was one of the main characters in this piece who experienced this behavior. And so she told me her experience, her story, and we were able to kind of vet that out. And in the process of that, we had heard from others in and around that office who had worked in that office, that this behavior had been going on for many, many years.
So if there were complaints for years, why did it take so long to remove him?
Olivia Messer: What state Sen. José Menéndez told us was that he did not believe the behavior that had been reported to him constituted sexual harassment.
Now, to be clear, the behavior that was reported to him, according to our sourcing, is that beginning in 2015, we’re talking about staffers making it known that they felt like they were witnessing him touch people inappropriately, make lewd comments, speak in ways that were derogatory, sexist, that kind of language. But frankly, what we found throughout the investigation was that state senators, their offices, despite undergoing training on sexual harassment, are not very well educated about what that harassment either entails or what it means going forward.
As we have talked about since our story dropped, it was very clear to us that what we’re describing in this story is both potentially violations of state and federal civil statutes regarding employment rights, but also potential crimes. And they are not being treated that way, at least according to our reporting in the state Capitol.
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You know, this isn’t the first time that sexual harassment has come up in the Texas Capitol. And Cara, your reporting even mentions that in 2018, the Texas Senate updated its sexual harassment policy – but actually, some say those updates helped offenders. Can you talk about that?
Cara Kelly: Yes. So what we found was that this update was billed as an answer to the allegations that were exposed at the height of the #MeToo movement back in 2017. But in practice, and actually in writing, they removed one clear instruction for anyone with knowledge or who witnessed sexual harassment to report it directly to HR or the Secretary of the Senate. And in practice, it allowed for this two-tiered system.
You have to really read it closely to understand it. Only complaints made directly to HR or the secretary of the Senate are treated as “official” and handled by independent investigators. Reports to supervisors or chief of staff are handled inside the individual senator’s offices. And this is where a lot of the problems that we found kind of occurred.
There’s nothing requiring senators to keep any record of complaints or really hold anyone accountable. And that may create some liability for the Senate because, as Olivia mentioned, the state and federal laws say employers must take immediate and appropriate action if they’re aware of it, and not just if they receive an “official” complaint.
So you mentioned the secretary of the Senate. This is a person who I think has worked at the Capitol for a really long time and is really essential to this reporting process. Could you guys tell me a little bit more about this person and what role she has in handling sexual harassment?
Cara Kelly: Of course. So, Patsy Spaw, who is the secretary of the Senate, serves as the executive administrator as well as the general counsel. So she’s responsible for a lot of the Senate’s operational functions. She supervises the elected officers and the department directors, including the head of human resources, and she handles all public records.
So a lot of our sources, a lot of current and former Senate employees that we talked to, described her as the main arbiter of this policy, under the direction of the president of the Senate, Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick. All policy, all personnel issues were sort of directed up to Spaw. Many of the really junior employees, including interns, say they didn’t even know how to contact human resources, let alone whether they had any protection under HR in this kind of capacity.
Well, Olivia and Cara, this is a huge investigation. As you said, it took a long time, and it required a lot of fact-checking. I’d love to ask each of you whether you have a sense of optimism about whether things will change and get better for women at the Capitol and in these situations, or not so much?
Olivia Messer: You know, I would say that I have done a version of this story more than one time over the past 11 years, and each time I do it, women are more comfortable coming forward, more optimistic that when they do come forward, change might occur and more comfortable saying “this is my name and this is my story, and I’m not worried anymore about what might happen if I speak about it.”
That in and of itself is really, really lovely to see – just the change some of that is based on. You know, if you were an intern when something happened to you, it may take you time to get to a place in your career where you’re no longer worried that speaking might affect the trajectory of your life. And many of the women who spoke the for our story did find that the experience of talking to us and being taken seriously was in itself healing.
Cara, would you add anything?
Cara Kelly: Yes. I’d say that in order to do this work, you have to have some optimism that we as a society are capable of understanding such a complex issue and of making change about it. There’s really no other way you could handle this level of kind of secondary trauma of hearing these stories over and over again. So I absolutely believe that things may improve for the people who continue to work there.
I would also add that some of my older sources, quite frankly, describe behavior from their early parts of their career – I mean, this is just anecdotally – but seemingly more severe and more pervasive. So they were able to see change over the course of their careers and lifetimes. And that gives me some optimism and hope that we will continue to see incremental change.